Rudolf Hoss, the first commandant of Auschwitz, is one of the more notorious figures from the Holocaust, taking a small prison camp and turning it into a modern killing factory. And, every day, one man had a blade on Hoss's neck, with vengeance one flick of the wrist away. That man was Jozef Paczynski, Hoss's barber. We spoke with him in his Krakow flat.

TLP: Will you tell us, please, where were you imprisoned and for how long?

Mr. Paczynski: This is a very long story. But, briefly, I was a soldier in 1939. In 1940, in March, I was going to join the Polish Army, which was being organized in France. I was arrested in Slovakia. The Slovaks denounced me to the Germans. I was a prisoner in Muszyna, Nowy Sacz, and Tarnow. On June 14, 1940 they moved us by train from Tarnow to Auschwitz. At that time nobody knew what it was.

We arrived at the railroad station in Auschwitz. On the Station building it was written in Gothic: "Auschwitz." The train moved on the sidings and there was already prepared a rectangular two-story building, which was surrounded with barbed wire. The SS men took us there. And that is how it began. That was Auschwitz - June 14, 1940.

They checked us and then the Lagerfuehrerer, Karl Fritzsch, gave a talk: "You have no idea where you are. This is not a Spa, this is a German concentration camp. The longest one lives here is 3 months, and if among you are priests or Jews they could live just 6 weeks." It was a speech made specially to break us down emotionally. We did not believe it, because who would believe that in the twentieth century - with Germany such a well known, appreciated nation...

We were innocent. Were we supposed to live only 3 months? And we came with the first transport from the Tarnow prison. There were 728 of us, most young boys like me.

They checked us all, brought us to a lower level, and there everybody got a file: age, last and first name, nationality, where from, where and how many golden teeth one had, and they also asked, "what kind of diseases does your family suffer from?" Why did they want to know all that?

It was clear. When one died, got shot, killed, they would first look into the mouth and check for the gold teeth. And, when the information about his death was sent to his family, they would give the reason for death as the same as his father's. I received a card - I did not know what it was - but on it was written 121. That was my camp number. Shall I show it?

Because, at the very beginning, they did not tattoo the numbers. One carried it in his cloth. But, during the Spring of '43 when there was such a great mortality, everybody got a tattoo. I have here a number everybody is interested in, 121.

From now on, nothing was important, not first or last name, not where I was from, only the number 121. That was how it started. The first weeks involved only sport, exercises, sport, sport, and later the formation of the Commando units, working groups. And here I have to say the truth, aha - what else? Before we arrived, thirty professional criminals came to Auschwitz. They came to perform special functions. Block personnel, capo, this and that; they all had a green triangle and were numbered from one to thirty. And here, I have again to say the truth: when the formation of the working groups started, one of those criminals, Otto Kuessel, number 2, shook my hand, picked me out, and sent me to work for his colleague number 8, Arno Boehm. Arno Boehm and I worked in a sort of cosmetics-barbershop. I worked as a helper, cleaning up, sweeping the floors, putting things in order. The chief was Arno Boehm - capo - and there I worked.

The advantage of all of that was that I had work under a roof. But, the shop was only for SS men - "nur fur SS" - and so the whole day, from morning to evening, one was among them. One had to be very careful because in the camp you could die for no reason. He (an SS man) was sitting drunk, you did not take off your cap, and that could be the end.

TLP: I'd like to ask you about Hoess? How long did you work there? When you were working for Hoess did you ever consider harming him and how to do it? And, if yes, then why, and if not, why not?

Mr. Paczynski: The question you have asked me was put to me in an evangelical cloister in Kassel. For almost 3 hours I talked and told them about everything that had happened. At the end, someone raised his hand and asked, "You say that you were in a bathroom together with Hoess and you, clearly, you had the opportunity to cut his throat." I answered that I indeed thought of it, there was no doubt I could do it, but then what would be the consequences? Probably half of the camp would be annihilated, saying nothing of my family and myself. That was a question put to me by a German.

TLP: Your depositions helped to convict many SS men. Did you have a feeing of revenge, of vengeance?

Mr. Paczynski: I gave the deposition of what I had seen. I did not feel any vengeance. Now, after the war, I collaborate with many German charitable institutions, such as the one of Maximilian Kolbe in Freiburg, Lager Gemeinde Auschwitz Freunde in Wuttenberg, and Zeichnen Hoffnung in Frankfurt am Main. I am very often invited to Germany; they have asked many questions and they listen. Indeed, they ask many questions. I have documentation on this subject, which I will show you, if there is a need. I was in Dortmund at the University; there were 3 meetings in a very large Auditorium, with questions asked by professors and students. Similarly, in Kassel and in Hamburg in July last year. I have to tell you that all of that tires me very much. I live through it again and it is very hard.

And often tears roll down my cheeks. There died my friends Morbert Rost, Stephan, and Tomani. I saw that mother with the child going to death. I saw it all. I saw my friends led to execution and shot. I went through this all. It is hard. You should not think that all of this has not made lasting impressions on me. It is hard. I lived through all of that and it is hard. One day, I think in Kaasel, a German came to me and said, "indeed your tears were rolling and rolling down your cheek." And that was right. Because this is not as simple as just saying "Auschwitz." I was there, I was right in there and saw it with my own eyes.

Further, I returned to Poland but there were problems. We thought that after the war everything would be right. I returned to Krakow but it was not easy. It was difficult to find a job. At last I found one, I worked. Two good engineers took care of me. I was working in the tobacco industry. They sent me to study and I finished technical college (Polytechnic). I was working in the Design Office. One friend of mine suggested I should go and work in the field of education. I got a good offer and worked in this field for 29 years. I was Director of the Collective of the Schools. First I worked in Krakow on Mickiewicza Street, than in Brzesk. I brought up several thousand or more young people. I have given them their profession and we often meet together even today and they invite me to graduation ceremonies, meetings, etc.

I am 88 years old. I had a hard life, but I have not wasted it. That is it. The end.

TLP: What is the most important lesson that you learned from the Holocaust?

Mr. Paczynski: What is the most important lesson? What to do to avoid it? We should see the human in each other. We should not permit giving power to evil people. We must help each other. In my correspondence with Germans, they write clearly that Hitler and Stalin were insane. We must not allow power to be given to evil people. They annihilate Jews; one may not like this or the other, but one cannot help being born a Jew. Aren't we all Jews? After all, Christ was a Jew, was he not? How can one kill another human being without reason? How can one? Help one another. Come to an understanding. Always come to an understanding for any price. Help each other. And I am helping now on behalf of the Maximilian Kolbe Association. There was here a hospital sponsored by this Association and I was a trustee. They sponsored the hospital, gave money, and every month I wrote the reports about how the money was spent. All of it went to help patients.

My dear friends, I repeat - the dead will not rise. Let's give them our honor and pay homage and make sure it will not repeat itself. And how to avoid it? Be full of forbearance and understanding to each other. What else?

TLP: You have seen so much death in your life, has it changed your outlook on life itself?

Mr. Paczynsi: Well, I had two periods in my camp life. At first I thought I would never get out of there. I was very worried. Shall I get out or not? Out or not? I was worried, got sick with typhoid, was very ill. It is seldom that one can survive when he is very ill. But perhaps earlier - the Gypsy. The Gypsy prisoner in the camp told me about the future that, "don't worry, you will get out from it together with a large group." When I was very worried, I always thought about what this Gypsy told me. After all, the Gypsy told me I would get out. This is something that seems so stupid, but in reality the forecast came true, because in May 1945 I got out from the camp with a large group.

TLP: You have lived through things we cannot imagine. Have these experiences had a positive effect on your life?

Mr. Paczynski: I told you I was a Director of the School Collective. All teachers of the Collective thought that I was too permissive with the students. By all of the means available to me I wanted to be sure that they would not be harmed, that they would pass from grade to grade without losing a year. I helped them. I also took care of the sick.

TLP: Hope. What do you think it is and how would you define it?

Mr. Paczynski: Hope? As you say in Polish, "Hope is the mother of the stupid." Yet one should always have hope. Being in the camp, we always hoped. I saw the prisoners who could barely stand and yet they hoped. One should not lose hope. In the prison cell in Nowy Sacz, I saw a sign scraped on the wall with a fingernail: "let the living not lose hope." And I always remembered that. I saw death; I watched death. "Let the living not lose hope."